Believe it or not Jim, Marshall, and I all had a chance to chat earlier today about the case of Abdul Rahman. The following is a transcript. Yes, we typically don’t capitalize when we’re chatting.

Cam says:
morning fellas. or morning and afternoon as the case may be

Jim says:
Yes - and a fairly good afternoon

Jim says:
I linked to a report that the Afghanis are telling other embassies that Rahman won’t be executed

Jim says:
Bravo on the protest organizing efforts anyway, though

Cam says:
they’re going to use the insanity thing?

Jim says:
Not clear exactly how, but I guess the various ambassadors let them know how strongly the opposition was

Cam says:
I’m not sure locking him away in a mental institution is all that much better.

Jim says:
and the message back was, “we know, we’re looking for a way out of this, and we assure you, he won’t be executed”

Marshall says:
I agree with Cam.

Marshall says:
Putting this guy in a mental institution might be worse than executing him.

Jim says:
Yeah, this isn’t quite the solution I’m looking for, but at least the worst possibility is off the table

Jim says:
Is the asylum really a possibility?

Marshall says:
“We’re going to kill you for your beliefs.” vs. “You don’t agree with us, so you must be crazy, mentally unbalanced or retarded.”

Jim says:
Does Afghanistan even have asylums?

Cam says:
something tells me they’re not going to let him go back home. how do you think the average Afghan would feel about that?

Jim says:
Well, keep the pressure on, and we’ll see

Cam says:
I’ve been thinking about this, and I don’t see a way for it to end very well.

Cam says:
I mean, Karzai’s got to do something. either they punish Rahman for having a bible, or they don’t. If there’s ANY punishment, the West is going to go nuts… at least I think they will. If they don’t punish Rahman, a lot of people in Afghanistan are going to go nuts. Well… nuttier than they already seem to be.

Jim says:
I guess the question is, does the ruling say, “he’s crazy, lock him up”, or does the ruling say, “he’s crazy, by the Koran we can’t punish him, we have no choice but to release him in accordance to Allah’s will? He’s crazy, what can we do?”

Jim says:
I dunno; the woman with the two-year pregnancy seemed to get off the hook, IIRC

Cam says:
do you think anybody will buy it?

Jim says:
“Even the devil can quote scripture for his own purposes.”

Cam says:
i don’t think the woman with the two year pregnancy ever ended up on the front page of every newspaper in this country

Jim says:
The CAIR release on this was full of Koranic verses talking about how it was unIslamic to convert by the sword

Marshall says:
So CAIR finally said something?

Jim says:
I suspect that if the authorities declare forcefully enough that whacking Rahman is against Allah’s will, the public will sign on.

Cam says:
you’re more optimistic than i am

Jim says:
Here’s a link to the CAIR statement

Jim says:
“Islamic scholars say the original rulings on apostasy were similar to those for treasonous acts in legal systems worldwide and do not apply to an individual’s choice of religion. Islam advocates both freedom of religion and freedom of conscience, a position supported by verses in the Quran, Islam’s revealed text, such as:

Jim says:
bla bla bla

Marshall says:
But on your other point, I think the chances of the Afghan mullahs embracing the CAIR position are about zero. They’re going to demogague this thing. Try to turn the people against Karzi.

Jim says:
Then I guess it will be a real power struggle

Jim says:
On the other hand, if Karzai and his allies spell out the cost of this (i.e., America pulls out and/or shifts them over to the “Axis of Evil” column), maybe they’ll see the cost-benefit analysis

Marshall says:
I hate to say that I’m doubtful, but I am. I think increasingly real muslims are happy to be in the axis of evil. It’s a badge of honor.

Cam says:
okay, not to sound overly pessimistic, but aren’t these mullahs (many of them anyway) taliban supporters?

Cam says:
i think this is the real tipping point here. this is the point where either Americans say “to hell with them” or a whole lot of Muslims get really angry at the West imposing our values on their religious system.

Jim says:
I dunno. At least in Kabul and the central provinces, the Afghans know what it’s like to live under religious extremists.

Jim says:
And they’ve seen U.S. firepower on its enemies close up.

Jim says:
They’re going to throw away their alliance with the world’s superpower, all of the aid, all of the asstiance and training and everything we can bring, in order to whack this guy for converting 15 years ago?

Cam says:
no.

Cam says:
they’re going to say “why would we want to be allied with the united states when it wants us to be a puppet like the soviets did back in the 80’s. ”

Marshall says:
And remember — the government’s penetration outside of Kabul is virtually non-existant.

Cam says:
remember too, two days ago the government’s prosecutor was calling for hanging Rahman. And there weren’t any protests going on in Afghanistan about it.

Jim says:
Can I be cynical enough to call this a win-win?

Jim says:
If he’s released, and Afghan society reconciles itself to the existence of converts in their midst, and the Koranic teaching calling for the murder of apostates is quietly retired in law and in practice.

Jim says:
Or they kill him, and the West understands exactly what Islam is all about.

Marshall says:
I like your optimism. But if he’s released, I think your reconciliation of ideas isn’t likely to come to pass.

Jim says:
Ah, his case will establish a precedent.

Cam says:
i think if he’s released, i don’t think he makes it to the airport to get to out of the country.

Jim says:
Before we get to all-out religious tolerance, maybe we need the half-step. “Your son converted to Christianity? Oh, so sorry to hear that. These kids these days. Insanity can happen even in the best families.”

Marshall says:
Oh. I hadn’t thought of that.

Marshall says:
(Someone killing him.)

Jim says:
Oh, if he gets torn apart by an angry mob, that’s even worse for the government.

Cam says:
btw, how much of a story is this in Turkey?

Jim says:
It’s getting some coverage.

Jim says:
Mostly wire accounts. Haven’t seen the local columnists talking about it; they’ve got plenty of their own local controversies to talk about.

Cam says:
that kind of bothers me to. I’m glad to see CAIR chime in, but a secular Muslim country like Turkey really ought to be leading the way in calling for Rahman’s release.

Cam says:
will any muslim country tell afghanistan that rahman should be freed?

Marshall says:
LOL

Marshall says:
No.

Marshall says:
Absolutely not.

Jim says:
Publicly no. Privately, perhaps a few.